BlueManedHawk

Y'all could put the unsubscribe link right at the top in big text to parody sites that make unsubscribing from mailing lists a labyrinthine quest of sorrow.

Well, yeah, but sometimes somebody isn't online.

I don't really think that this is a great idea. I worry that wikis will encourage people to be slow, non-stringent, and incomprehensive about documenting things, something that i've seen happen before, although i'm not completely sure why it happens. What i think would be better is some way to allow for documentation of subforæ, integrated within the apioforum.

I don't really see this as being a particularly useful feature; also, to me, this feels like it would be somewhat objectifying of people. What i think could work instead is some way to send direct messages to another member of the apioforum.

What's to stop somebody from carefully choosing the option names so that every option is the (nigh-indistinguishable shades of) the same color?

new longest thread? /j

What was the old one?

RE: #2871

Yeah, i agree that these things suck. Hopefully, WG14 will be able to make some progress to change these things. Regardless, i think that C is still the best option.

[snipped—see original here]

honestly these don't seem too unreasonable to me […]

Infinite punishment is always immoral. I've been meaning to write out a formal proof of this for a while, but i don't have enough space on my computer to install a TeX suite, so for now i'll just regurgitate what i always say: Because an infinite punishment must only be given for infinite crimes, and no jurisdiction is perfect, a jurisdiction must be prevented from ever giving an infinite punishment, because it is not okay to risk someone being given an infinite punishment for a finite crime.

As for a fair and just trial…well, this has been covered before, and i'm sure you already know why a fair and just trial is important, so i'm not sure why you consider it okay for the Rust community to allow punishments to be delivered without them.

A governing body punishing people for crimes committed outside of their own jurisdictions is not okay because it makes it impossible for a person to begin anew.

Better than object-orientation.

rust isn't object oriented lol

The language allows for object-orientation, and the standard library has a lot of it.

enjoy your segfaults

Better than object-orientation.

what is morally reprehensible about the way that the rust community is run?

As i said before: the code of law allows infinite punishment to be given to people, allows punishment to be given without a fair and just trial, and allows punishment for actions committed outside of the jurisdiction of the Rust community, potentially among other things i'm forgetting. These are all immoral.

why do you expect programming languages to be run like countries

I expect that all jurisdictions will run in a way that is not morally reprehensible. I do not think that this is an unreasonable thing to expect.

67

🖕 beats 🌌, because those who have gone survived what seemed to be unsurvivable have really given the universe the middle finger.

Which thing-being-complained-about are you referring to?

neither of "there is one rust build system" or "the republic of Rustacea does not have a fair judicial system" are criticisms of the Rust language

True, but "There is only one ecosystem that the Rust language is designed for." is. You're right about the second one, though, but since that community is the official community, it's still definitely a big fuckin' problem, and one that does affect the language, even if it's not directly about it.

[…][C] doesn't let you define many nice abstractions or write code in general and terse ways.

I think that it's definitely possible to make nice abstractions and write code for general situations. I haven't messed around with C23's new auto and typeof, but if you're looking for generics, you can probably combine those with macros to get something like that (although admittedly macros also suck). As for terseness…well, just ask the participants to the IOCCC. I kid, of course, but while that's an extreme example, i do think it's certainly possible to write terse code in C.

then why is rust malware? i don't think rust's safety features were added out of malice

As seen in #2792, i've learned about the fact that Rust's safety features are, in fact, completely overridable and merely the default instead of a requirement, and have updated my message at #2781 to account for this. I now only consider Rust malware for the reasons mentioned in the second, not-crossed-out paragraph at #2781.

Relevant to #2833, and to get this thread back on its original track: Should an apioforum rewrite happen, i think that it would be nice to have a more "proper" reply system than quote pyramids. If that can't be done, i would instead like to suggest some way to make it a little easier than manually copy-pasting what one wishes to reply to and manually adding carrots.

lua doesn't let you arbitrarily access memory. does this mean that lua is malware?

No, because it's not doing that out of malice, but simply because it's outside of the scope of the language.

my boss doesnt allow me to do most things that my brain can, is he malware?

That sounds like he's just doing assholey things.

no i mean like i could burn down the whole building but he wont let me, he thinks its some sort of "arson"

Based on prior experience, i doubt it's him constructing those laws in the first place. In any case, why would you want to burn the building down in the first place?

i never said i wanted to, i just said that i could

Well, if you don't want to, why does it bother you that you can't?

my boss doesnt allow me to do most things that my brain can, is he malware?

That sounds like he's just doing assholey things.

no i mean like i could burn down the whole building but he wont let me, he thinks its some sort of "arson"

Based on prior experience, i doubt it's him constructing those laws in the first place. In any case, why would you want to burn the building down in the first place?

RE: #2825

C's low-levelness means it's got a fuckton of power, but yeah, it does come with the cost of having to rebuild everything from the ground up for each project that one starts, though at least that's just an initial cost and not throughout the project, mostly, and it means that it's always possible to override the infrastructure one has set up when it's necessary. Still, though, it would be nice if WG14 were to expand the language and library so that this wasn't necessary.

I also agree about the lack of expressiveness—having no way to make local functions is irritating, especially when there's two competing implementations on how it could be done, and the unclean macros are a real piece of piss. However, despite both the lack of high-levelness and the lack of expressiveness, i still maintain that it's not as bad as any other programming language (still bad though).

As for Perl, i think that most of its eldritch nature can be credited to its sheer irregularity, and the fact that it's really fucking large. But most of the stuff that's in the language exists for a reason. Still, though, i don't think it's suitable for anything of significant size, and is generally better for small things that don't need professionalism—but for those things, i think it's the least bad option (still bad though).

I was mostly talking about HTML/CSS/JS as a single language, because personally i think that's the most practical way to think about them. However, i'm not aware of any way to replace JS—TypeScript is malware because it's made by Microsoft, and WASM requires one to use JS anyway in order for it to work.

hi

I'm pretty sure that for any programming language somebody throws at me, i'd be able to think of a reason why it sucks (though to be fair, most of the time that would be "It's an esolang, so it can't really be fairly judged like other languages." or "It's not big enough and there's not enough support for it, and in any case [whatever else is pertinent to that particular language]."). The only two programming languages i think should be used are 0) C, because everything else is worse; B) Perl, for small things only, because every other scripting language is worse; and 3.) any language that's the only choice for a specific domain, e.g. HTML/CSS/JS for webdev.

my boss doesnt allow me to do most things that my brain can, is he malware?

That sounds like he's just doing assholey things.

it doesnt matter what it is im just trying to convey a point

Well, i'd say that it makes your point not quite as strong by having the analogy not carry as well.

Firefox isn't a programming language.

Designing pip for Python is different than designing Python for pip. The latter is closer to what happens in Rust.